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	<title>Comments on: Ripping Off the Young</title>
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	<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/</link>
	<description>Insights on Health Care Reform &#124; NCPA</description>
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		<title>By: John Goodman</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48903</link>
		<dc:creator>John Goodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48903</guid>
		<description>There is a great editorial on this by Robert Samuelson in the Washington Post this morning. Here is the link: http://bit.ly/6eHp3R</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a great editorial on this by Robert Samuelson in the Washington Post this morning. Here is the link: <a href="http://bit.ly/6eHp3R" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6eHp3R</a></p>
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		<title>By: Linda Gorman</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48320</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Gorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Nov 2009 21:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48320</guid>
		<description>Is employer-sponsored insurance truly community rated? 

Perhaps it looks like that from the employee perspective, but that is because it is, as people have pointed out here, due to the fact that the employee pricing reflects health insurance&#039;s status as an employee benefit.

When the employer goes shopping for insurance to cover large losses, however, its group is experience rated--you have high medical losses in your group? You pay more. No community rating there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is employer-sponsored insurance truly community rated? </p>
<p>Perhaps it looks like that from the employee perspective, but that is because it is, as people have pointed out here, due to the fact that the employee pricing reflects health insurance&#8217;s status as an employee benefit.</p>
<p>When the employer goes shopping for insurance to cover large losses, however, its group is experience rated&#8211;you have high medical losses in your group? You pay more. No community rating there.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart I.</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48292</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart I.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48292</guid>
		<description>Anyway, my point was that employer-sponsored insurance is already at least modified-community-rated.  Insurance companies aren&#039;t forced by the government to sell group insurance, employers aren&#039;t forced to carry it, and employees aren&#039;t forced to accept it, yet employer sponsored insurance is more prevalent than individually purchased coverage by a factor of 10 to 1.  &lt;i&gt;Something&lt;/i&gt; must be working right; why couldn&#039;t they have used this as the basis for expanded access, rather than throw the whole system into chaos?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyway, my point was that employer-sponsored insurance is already at least modified-community-rated.  Insurance companies aren&#8217;t forced by the government to sell group insurance, employers aren&#8217;t forced to carry it, and employees aren&#8217;t forced to accept it, yet employer sponsored insurance is more prevalent than individually purchased coverage by a factor of 10 to 1.  <i>Something</i> must be working right; why couldn&#8217;t they have used this as the basis for expanded access, rather than throw the whole system into chaos?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike B</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48290</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48290</guid>
		<description>Just look at the states that have this modified community rating and it is an insurance night mare for the young.   I tried to get a woman age 20 in NJ a plan, it was over $400.   In PA, the plan was around $75.   This bill is absurd.   
Instead of change we can believe in , it should be change our wallets will feel.   This bill is a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just look at the states that have this modified community rating and it is an insurance night mare for the young.   I tried to get a woman age 20 in NJ a plan, it was over $400.   In PA, the plan was around $75.   This bill is absurd.<br />
Instead of change we can believe in , it should be change our wallets will feel.   This bill is a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart I.</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48287</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart I.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48287</guid>
		<description>Stephen: By &quot;most employers&quot; you appear to be talking about only those employers who self-insure.  But it seems to me that most smaller employers purchase small company group plans.  Here the premium is the actual premium charged by the insurance company, so it&#039;s not just &#039;nominal&#039;.

I agree that the pure community rating carried on large, self-insured employers&#039; books is largely bookkeeping fiction.  No doubt the employees&#039; salaries are adjusted to compensate for much of the actual cost of coverage, at least where age and sex are concerned.  Whether this is also true of health status would depend on whether management has access to claims data.  My guess is that it would be difficult to adjust salaries in response to changes in health status, so the reality in large companies is probably fairly close to the small-business, age-banded, non-self-insured model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen: By &#8220;most employers&#8221; you appear to be talking about only those employers who self-insure.  But it seems to me that most smaller employers purchase small company group plans.  Here the premium is the actual premium charged by the insurance company, so it&#8217;s not just &#8216;nominal&#8217;.</p>
<p>I agree that the pure community rating carried on large, self-insured employers&#8217; books is largely bookkeeping fiction.  No doubt the employees&#8217; salaries are adjusted to compensate for much of the actual cost of coverage, at least where age and sex are concerned.  Whether this is also true of health status would depend on whether management has access to claims data.  My guess is that it would be difficult to adjust salaries in response to changes in health status, so the reality in large companies is probably fairly close to the small-business, age-banded, non-self-insured model.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48286</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48286</guid>
		<description>What is being proposed is also very regressive. When you&#039;re young your income tends to be low. Most people reach their peak earnings in their 50s or even in their 60s. So overcharging the young so that older people can be undercharged is taking from the poor and giving to the rich.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is being proposed is also very regressive. When you&#8217;re young your income tends to be low. Most people reach their peak earnings in their 50s or even in their 60s. So overcharging the young so that older people can be undercharged is taking from the poor and giving to the rich.</p>
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		<title>By: Devon Herrick</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48281</link>
		<dc:creator>Devon Herrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48281</guid>
		<description>What progressives really want is a socialized health care system like is commonly found in Europe.  In these systems, nobody ever experiences a bill; bureaucrats control the recourses and the cost is paid by society as a whole -- especially the rich.  

But, Leaders in Congress are stuck with our current system.  Thus, the starting point is a system heavily dominated by employers.  As a result, the proposals are little more than a convoluted attempt to simulate European social sickness funds using a series of taxes, subsidies, mandates, employer penalties.

A simulated socialized health care system will likely perform even worse than an actual socialized health care system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What progressives really want is a socialized health care system like is commonly found in Europe.  In these systems, nobody ever experiences a bill; bureaucrats control the recourses and the cost is paid by society as a whole &#8212; especially the rich.  </p>
<p>But, Leaders in Congress are stuck with our current system.  Thus, the starting point is a system heavily dominated by employers.  As a result, the proposals are little more than a convoluted attempt to simulate European social sickness funds using a series of taxes, subsidies, mandates, employer penalties.</p>
<p>A simulated socialized health care system will likely perform even worse than an actual socialized health care system.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen C.</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48276</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48276</guid>
		<description>Bart I. Most employers community rate to employees the employee share of the premium. But this is only 25% of the cost, on the average. More importantly, economic studies show that fringe benefits are substitutes for wages in the compensation package. To me, this implies that regardless of how employers nominally allocate the premium, the real value of the insurance plus the taxable wage is the total value of employee compensation, and this has to equal the employee&#039;s marginal product.

If employee&#039;s are getting their marginal product then no one is getting screwed.

What is being proposed is entirely different. Young people will be compelled to buy a product for which they are overcharged and (in the exchange) there will be no compensating variation in the wage rate to offset this burden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bart I. Most employers community rate to employees the employee share of the premium. But this is only 25% of the cost, on the average. More importantly, economic studies show that fringe benefits are substitutes for wages in the compensation package. To me, this implies that regardless of how employers nominally allocate the premium, the real value of the insurance plus the taxable wage is the total value of employee compensation, and this has to equal the employee&#8217;s marginal product.</p>
<p>If employee&#8217;s are getting their marginal product then no one is getting screwed.</p>
<p>What is being proposed is entirely different. Young people will be compelled to buy a product for which they are overcharged and (in the exchange) there will be no compensating variation in the wage rate to offset this burden.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart I.</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48275</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart I.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48275</guid>
		<description>Employer-sponsored insurance is also typically rate banded, if not pure community rated for some large companies, but the employer tax exclusion serves to offset the additional cost of these plans for younger or healthier individuals.

If Congress wanted to narrow the price range they should have used a cleaned-up version of this approach, instead of dictating prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Employer-sponsored insurance is also typically rate banded, if not pure community rated for some large companies, but the employer tax exclusion serves to offset the additional cost of these plans for younger or healthier individuals.</p>
<p>If Congress wanted to narrow the price range they should have used a cleaned-up version of this approach, instead of dictating prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Bret</title>
		<link>http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/ripping-off-the-young/comment-page-1/#comment-48274</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 19:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.john-goodman-blog.com/?p=6799#comment-48274</guid>
		<description>This is terrible. How can they get away with it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is terrible. How can they get away with it?</p>
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